The Value of the Warrior Forum
August 3rd, 2010 | 43 comments
In the past I have said some negative things about the Warrior Forum, but in hindsight I realize that in many ways the Warrior Forum has made me a GREAT deal of money. It has even introduced me to people who have become very good friends.
The negativity or bitterness I’ve had for the Warrior Forum in the past comes from some members there who tend to provide what they consider to be “advice” but in reality it’s inaccurate and only hurts those who accept it, by slowing their progress toward success.
HOWEVER, that’s a natural human behavior and it happens everywhere, in all forums and even offline. It certainly shouldn’t cause anyone to leave the community because of it. Instead, we should ALWAYS keep that in mind and simply be cautious about who we take advice from… always remember that there are many people out there who just want everyone to think they know what they’re talking about.
But there are also those of us in these Internet Marketing Communities who only offer advice on things we know about and sincerely do want to help!
So, I just wanted to write this short post to clear that up because I’ve made remarks in the past to the contrary. The Warrior Forum, and other Internet Marketing Forums provide an EXCELLENT opportunity to network, make direct & indirect sales, build your LIST, find topics of interest, build links to your site and more!
I wrote a post a long while back pointing out the major advantages to forum marketing and they are still true today.
Read those, join those forums, participate, HELP people (that means only giving advice on things you are confident in) and leverage these forums to grow your business.
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3rd August, 2010 at 3:01 pm
Sounds like you’ve done a complete about-face on the Warrior Forum, Josh. Was there anything specific that made you step back and realize the forum had merits that you perhaps didn’t appreciate before?
Now you’ve got me rethinking my opinion of some networking sites I previously dissed.
3rd August, 2010 at 3:03 pm
I’ve been a member of the WF for many years. I think I joined at the beginning of 2004. I’ve learned a lot there and made some good friends from there. However, it is true that you need to be careful of what advice you actually listen to. Lots of great people there but the opposite is also true.
3rd August, 2010 at 3:08 pm
Hi Josh – good post. I have the same exact feelings towards the warrior forum as you. But as you have seen, why let the few “baddies” spoil the positive benefits.
I can truly say this as well – when I started out in IM I thought I could do it on my own. The reality is, if you ever want to make serious money (5 figures a month) you cannot do it by yourself. You need others.
As always, thanks for the honesty of your post.
3rd August, 2010 at 3:08 pm
Funny Josh, I was just reading a post by another IM’r who was saying how helpful and valuable the WF can be. I guess I better check it out!
3rd August, 2010 at 3:10 pm
I agree in general — but I still consider it to be relatively Newbie-hostile. The problem is that it is hard for new people to separate the good guys from the idiots.
On top of that, there are many MEAN people there. I am not OK with Mean.
So, while I do make use of the WF, I could never recommend it to new people.
Why would people hang out at WF when they could hang out in your forum? I cannot think of one good reason (outside of WSO maybe).
Just my $0.02.
Regards,
Mark
3rd August, 2010 at 3:34 pm
I agree Josh,
As a matter of fact I wrote a post about becoming a member of the Warrior forum last February. There are some pointers for the newbie in it, but even so there is a learning curve and you will likely get scammed until you learn the ropes.
http://linkmoney.org/become-a-warrior-join-their-forum/.html
3rd August, 2010 at 3:36 pm
Hi Josh,
I agree, these places can provide a wealth of opportunities, especially if you know how to use them to you benefit.
Like you mentioned, the main thing is to participate and help people and slowly but surely the good karma works its way back to you
But I do agree with Mark’s comments too, there is a lot of people there that tend to prey on the Newbies in their quest to find out information for themselves there. I’ve seen it so many times and these people irritate me.
But on the whole, WF and all other like forums can provide some great information and services at times.
Thanks,
Paul
3rd August, 2010 at 3:37 pm
You are right Josh. The quality of advice on the WF can range from excellent, all the way down to ridiculous.
Some of the folks there can be pretty aggresive as well. I remember when I was a newcomer to the forum, getting sucked into some digital fisticuffs with a somewhat unsavory individual. He’s since been banned!
Thankfully there are a lot of really good people on the forum, and it doesn’t take too long to sort the wheat from the chaff.
3rd August, 2010 at 3:40 pm
There’s certainly value there as it has done a LOT for a lot of people.
It can also send you down the wrong rabbit hole, or eat up the clock, but if you can use it in a way that it brings value to whatever project(s) you’re working on it can be a remarkable source of insight and direction.
3rd August, 2010 at 3:45 pm
I agree with Mark Mason.
Although I understand that it keeps the older guys from getting a lot of naive questions, it is hard on the newbsters to have to post 50 times before being able to send a private message.
WHAT are you going to post on, if you are very new?
And I agree with the mean thing as well. Some comments make me wince.
I found out the hard way there, on CPC. I bought a product that offered an ingenious way to “persuade” prospects to fill out some email and telephone# surveys. I filled them out first to test the product….you see, it is my standard to only offer what I think is useful and valuable.
Next thing I knew, I had $50 added to my phone bill for subscriptions that were hidden in the user agreements.
I learned a good lesson.
Warrior Forum did recommend the WSO, and I found it was unethical.
Thank you for your straightforward accountability. It is why I have been buying your products and watching you for so long.
Best, Terrell
3rd August, 2010 at 3:49 pm
Josh
I’m glad you said that because, well there was one instance of a bad product you mentioned and I could see where you were coming from on that. But generally I’ve been thinking that I didn’t just didn’t agree with your take on the WF.
I get enormous benefit from it. And newbie as I am I have some disagreements too. Not many. But if one sees past the rubbish (I’m speaking from the UK) there’s a lot I’ve gotten. I try always to put something in, and as I say I gain in return.
It’s a difficult thing for many to say they were in error, so thanks for that.
3rd August, 2010 at 3:51 pm
@markmason: Talking about mean people, I think warrior forum is relatively tame. Go try wicked fire.
Anyway, some newbies just spend too much time in forum. They earn reputation but not money.
3rd August, 2010 at 4:08 pm
Hi Josh
I do visit the warrior forum sometimes, but they can be quite nasty to newbies which often puts people off posting on there.
I guess that’s why it’s called the warrior forum lol.
Sally
3rd August, 2010 at 4:35 pm
I’ve always enjoyed the Warrior Forum although I rarely spend time there these days. I tend to lose myself reading posts there and then all of a sudden I wonder where did the time go?
You are right, anywhere you go there are people giving bad advice, or people who are mean. We just have to look past that, keep up our guard and find the true nuggets of great info and great people.
3rd August, 2010 at 4:56 pm
We gotta sucker up to the Warrior Forum vets and play ball with them to make money from the WSO’s I think.
3rd August, 2010 at 5:00 pm
The WF people scared me when I was new, but I gradually got some knowledge under my belt and learned not to take things too personally,
I try not to spend too much time there as it is a time-suck, but I will go there when I need an answer to a question or want to see what others think of a product, service, or software I’m considering purchasing.
“What are your favorite WP plug ins?” is a helpful post for me to read as it gives me suggestions and I can investigate and decide.
Thanks,
Peggy
3rd August, 2010 at 5:00 pm
I ditto Mark Mason’s post. It’s too bad no one seems to be making an effort to put a stop to the cruelty I’ve seen aimed at newbies who are only trying to get some help. It’s ruining what used to be a perfect marketing forum.
I’ve noticed that some of the people there are always on whether it is morning, noon, or late night. They can’t be making any money, so how can they have the marketing experience it takes to give expert advice?
I rarely post there anymore.
3rd August, 2010 at 5:24 pm
Very true, and not just with the warrior forum, all forums have this dynamic to some extent or another.
I can specifically remember being on another forum, and listening so a respected member of the community there, and literally was set back at least a year developing SEO knowledge and experience as a result,
The most important thing I’ve found is to take ALL advice with a grain of salt…and test everything yourself.
Some advice might be great, but might not work for your own particular situation.
3rd August, 2010 at 5:44 pm
Hi Josh,
I use the Warrior Forum here and there but have to say that for a newbie or budding marketer, that is probably the last place they should be.
The reality is that most of the “warriors” are simply marketing to marketers and everything that is written should be taken with a grain of salt and closely inspected for WIIFT (what’s-in-it-for-them) because typically you are going to find that even some of the more advanced warriors are nothing more than product peddlers looking for easy bait….
For instance, if you have a question about article marketing, you will find tons of “information” regarding it by people who conveniently happen to also be selling some sort of article marketing system in their signature link.
Someone asks about autoresponder systems and you can betcha that most will gravitate toward a service that happens to allow affiliates all the while, being critical of the ones that are selling products without affiliate links. (like Mailchimp which I have had no problems with)
And while none of this is technically wrong, immoral or unethical, those searching for information in regards to this stuff are usually not aware that the bias isn’t necessarily based on a vested interest or affiliation with whatever product they are pimping.
But the worst part of these marketing forums (like you mentioned earlier) isn’t vested interests….it is the complete ignorance of many who, along with their affiliations and bias get it all wrong.
For instance, I remember a few months back someone asking about which was best- static websites or wordpress. There were literally 50+ posts that emphatically stated that wordpress was somehow superior to a regular plain old website…..and you know that that simply isn’t the case.
At any rate, love your blog….love your products and keep on keeping on.
3rd August, 2010 at 6:08 pm
I think the WF is rife with overly used tactics, re-hased, same ole IM stuff, and I rarely use it anymore. Everyone there is looking for to become the next “Internet Marketing King or Queen”.
There are plenty of other IM forums that provide better advice for the beginner, intermediate or advanced marketers.
Just my thoughts….
Paul
3rd August, 2010 at 6:15 pm
It’s pretty easy to ignore the riff raff in the Warrior Forum — unless you’re drawn to that sort of drama.
In other words, it’s like anything else in life: you get out of it what you bring into it.
I personally think the Warrior Forum is an incredible resource. You just have to use your common sense, ignore the idiots, and simply use it for an “Answer Man” resource.
I can’t tell you how many great, quick answers I got to uncontroversial (but important) questions.
Even better, the “War Room” section of the Warrior Forum surely has to be THE best value anywhere. The information in that forum is just as good as any expensive IM product you can buy.
3rd August, 2010 at 6:21 pm
I’ve been earning income online since 1998 so I know a little about the WF.
It used to be a great place years ago but somehow has morphed into a Self Promotional haven for the good, the bad and the ugly.
Once you open that pandora’s box it’s hard to close.
Hell, I’ve seen fistfights goin on inside the WF like a bunch of “junk yard dogs” fighting over a piece of meat (newbies).
The truth is, the IM market is full of snake oil salespeople and they can slither into any area of the web without thought or remorse.
All the best,
Mad Guy
3rd August, 2010 at 7:16 pm
The WF is a good resource to get some Ideas. But you can waste a lot of time in those forums. I try to stay out of them unless I am looking for something.
3rd August, 2010 at 8:44 pm
The first real forum I joined, and actively participated was the Conquer Your Niche forum, created by Russell Brunson.
And it was intriguing when many fellow forumers who say ‘CNY was better than WF’. In fact, they often spend more time there, especially newbies, because it’s more ‘friendly’.
And I decided that I don’t need to find out why.
Until today, the only person, I think, who highly recommend WF to start building income and getting sales is Marlon Sanders. But I choose to go a different way…
3rd August, 2010 at 9:25 pm
I disagree with Josh.
Although it’s often true that a forum is a microcosm of the world at large, a place where members represent a wide range of personalities, opinions and experience, such a community can work if all members are treated respectfully in an atmosphere that fosters the free exchange of ideas.
This is NOT the case with the Warrior Forum. Free speech is not welcomed there. Worthless WSOs, ridiculous banishments and incompetent moderators are.
I will give Josh the benefit of the doubt and accept his opinion as sincere. I realize he runs his own forum but my experience with Warrior Forum critics who experience a change of heart is that money is usually involved. A mea culpa is usually followed by a new product launch, wso or marketing endeavor involving the Warrior Forum or one of its ‘prominent’ members.
Imo, the value of marketing forums is overrated. They are often just a waste of one’s time. However, the Warrior Forum is the worst of all internet marketing forums. The good folks and helpful posts there are far outweighed by Allen Says’ strict censorship policy, plethora of scam WSOs and immature, incompetent moderators.
The Warrior Forum is a hostile place for newbies and experienced marketers alike. It really consists of a small circle of ethically challenged marketers who prop up each others’ product launches with phony testimonials and misleading posts and threads to whip the unsuspecting WF members into a buying frenzy.
The unfair WF banning is not just directed at newbies. Here are some veteran marketers who have recently been banned from the Warrior Forum:
Jim Straw (JF Straw)
Steve Troisi (His offense? Protesting marketing legend Jim Straw’s unfair banning)
Mark Andrews (banned for defending Jim Straw)
There is little value in the Warrior Forum.
Chuck Rosseel
3rd August, 2010 at 10:17 pm
I always found WF to be a useful source and quite enjoyed watching some of the spats unfold. I don’t visit so often now due to time pressures. I also got some good advice from one or two members.
3rd August, 2010 at 10:29 pm
WF is exactly as it appears- a semi- hostile mine with some Gems hidden inside.
Great place to learn what you don’t want to be – if you are new!
3rd August, 2010 at 10:44 pm
It’s an imperfect world after all. But it takes a man of character to admit his errors and then correct them. My hat is off to you for doing that!
3rd August, 2010 at 11:42 pm
There is a lot of money to be made on forums, especially the warrior forum. Newbies will difinetly get information overload but I do think it’s a great place to get help and answers when your stuck.
Yeah you might get blasted out of the water by someone who “knows it all,” but who cares! Don’t let someone you don’t even know hold you back or stop you!
You know, at the WF you could make $10,000 (just throwing possible figures out there) selling a WSO, build a list of thousands of people, maybe do a JV worth 100k, find good people who you can outsource all your work too, find marketing friends that may help you make ($$$$$) in the future.
I think the warrior forum is one of the best internet marketing communities online.
Crystal.
3rd August, 2010 at 11:47 pm
I have to thank the warrior forum for
finding Chris Farrell, the best tutor on the
internet.
4th August, 2010 at 4:30 am
Hi Josh
Thanks for the great post.
I am still new to IM and I just joined the WF. Still exploring. Will keep exploring and keep your advice in mind.
4th August, 2010 at 7:40 am
I’ve poked my head into the WF a couple of times over the years, but the atmosphere wasn’t that appealing to me, although I had heard good things about it elsewhere.
I’ve been a long time member of a few other forums, and as you suggested the unpleasant practice that you mentioned in WF can be found all over to some degree.
I’ve tried to limit my own comments over the years to things I actually new about (unless I was asking questions), and not just comment for comments sake.
Now I find that I have to limit myself to only a specific amount of “forum time” so that I don’t allow my time to be frittered away before I realize it.
4th August, 2010 at 3:53 pm
This is really interesting. I’ve had two experiences with WF. The first was very positive. I bought a short report on a little known article marketing strategy which I’m still using. It was only a few dollars and it has helped enormously.
The second was a breath taking rip off! I purchased a PR service which was unbelievably bad! The writing was appalling, full of spelling and grammatical errors and the writer didn’t understand any of the basic principles of writing a good press release.
This experience has really made me wary as it is obvious to me there is no real check on what is offered on the site. The testimonials cannot be guaranteed to be impartial either.
If nothing else, it has made me realise that you need to try something and test it for yourself, rather than take someone’s word for it.
4th August, 2010 at 4:13 pm
The best thing about the Warrior Forum?
The members themselves, the ‘extraordinary people’ who make the community what it is.
Normal, average people who you might meet in the street or anywhere for that matter – caring, sharing and offering advice and helpful tips to each other.
Most of these individuals are the salt of the earth… All beautiful personalities in their own right.
All struggling to get by in this economic downturn, each in their own way committing a random act of kindness by giving up their time to help another person out.
Personally, I think this is absolutely wonderful. A very beautiful thing to behold.
On the other hand, there are a few Warriors who do not care so much about helping other people out, as much as possible.
They are in the game of Internet marketing purely for their own selfish, greedy means.
If they can seek to make money out of you they will.
If they can seek to part you from your cash, no matter what – they will.
And this is a real great shame, for it devalues the Warrior Forum significantly overall.
With a few very easy and simple to implement changes in their approach, the Warrior Forum could be a really, really good place to learn from and also help others but I fear with the current leadership model – these changes will not happen anytime soon.
With too many so-called ‘gurus’ all promoting the hell out of each other, patting each other on the back, giving each of their inner circle friends testimonials and lamblasting other forum members who challenge their false ‘authority’, it’s a forum essentially slowly and surely going down the drain.
The WSO section, whilst there are one or two good offers here and there, they are few and far between.
It’s utterly ridiculous some of the offers being allowed in that section and in the name of greed, more and more silly worthless offers are being promoted to members of the forum, just to grab $20 every couple of minutes or so for the forum admin.
Even more silly was the recent temporary banning of marketing legend JF Straw.
Acting on a moderators advice, he posted up one of his rare comments.
Another moderator took exception to Jim Straws comment and temporarily banned him for 7 days.
This caused an immediate uproar on the Warrior Forum.
A 75 year old gentleman with the kindest disposition possible, a direct marketing legend with an impeccable track record, responsible for generating some $400 million dollars in his career, who only lost his wife last year – banned from the Warrior Forum for 7 days for acting on another moderators advice.
What a shame the administrators saw fit to uphold the ban rather than lifting it, even though it was one of their own moderators who was actually at fault, for giving the terribly bad advice to Jim Straw in the first place.
A few members stuck to their guns and asked the administrators to overturn this appalling decision publically.
Shouted down, publically ridiculed, called names – they were eventually banned indefinitely from the Warrior Forum and all of their many hundreds of threads and posts removed / deleted from the forum altogether.
What purpose does this serve?
A great forum, superb in fact, lovely people within the community – admin and moderators are sadly off their heads in short.
From a sociological point of view the place is certainly interesting to watch.
There are plenty more places out there (thankfully) where you can learn from each other and hopefully earn yourself a few extra bob to boot.
To everyone here – I personally wish you every possible success, whalloping great dollops of cash and as much happiness as you can handle!
Stay positive…
MarkAndrews IMCopywriting
4th August, 2010 at 4:28 pm
Hi,
while Chuck already hit the nail right on the head I would like to add a few points.
The large majority of members of the WF simply are NOT ABLE to market anything online (except dreams).
So they infiltrate the forum for many hours every single day and try to earn money by building a questionable reputation, through idiotic signature links and misleading WSOs (lies -> fraud).
So what exactly should a so-called newbie learn from them ?
They regard themselves as elite Internet Marketers. In reality, they are Warrior Forum Marketers at best.
They give “testimonials” which contain no information about how a certain product worked for them at all. Which is, admittedly, difficult since most of them are professional ebook buyers and never even try any of the strategies described.
They create hidden JVs in the sense of providing useless testimonials for each other depending on who has listed a WSO and when.
I had never an account there by they way.
Okay, back to work. Remember you will never make it online if you hang out in forums for hours daily.
Thanks
4th August, 2010 at 8:31 pm
Why would anyone even for a second follow the drama that surrounded Jim Straw or anyone else?
Everything you could ever want to know about Internet marketing is in that forum.
There are scores of complete systems and methods of making money online contained in all those posts.
It’s funny, but before I found this particular thread on Josh’s blog, I was barely aware of anything negative about the Warrior Forum (and I’ve been on it for several years.)
5th August, 2010 at 1:21 am
Amen , I agree, forums can be very helpful. My experience with Wealthy Affiliate was very helpful in learning about this IM thing.
Without going into too much detail, I had mixed feelings about the forum. On one hand everyone I chatted with seemed willing to help me out when I was stuck. On the other hand, at times I felt as though the members where practicing their marketing skills on me.
I suppose that’s how the world turns, I have no regrets, overall I think that forums are helpful.
5th August, 2010 at 5:32 pm
I’ve gone back and forth on my opinion over the years, even publicly… on this blog. The Warrior Forum DEFINITELY has alot of undesirable members, but IF you can just accept that, be careful about who you take advice from, step back and look at the whole picture, you’ll see there is alot of value there.
To the moron who’s comment was deleted that implied that I “missed my WSO income” I haven’t had a WSO “income” for about 5 years and I don’t know if I would consider it ever being an income.
There honestly wasn’t any particular “thing/even/person” that changed my mind. I was just thinking about it the other day and realized that if you can get past the negatives, there sure are alot of positives.
@ Mark – There are mean people there… even idiotic assholes
But there are people like that in our schools, neighborhoods and grocery stores too. I definitely see an issue with newbies not knowing who to trust, but that’s the same whether they’re in the Warrior forum or sifting through a million MMO blogs.
I just think those who can ignore the negativity and who are careful about who they listen to, there sure is alot of positives there if you think about it.
@ Chuck – You have some points, but as I explained above there is true value if you can ignore the negativity, step back and reassess. And I do not have a product related to this coming out and I do not plan on running a WSO anytime soon lol this is just something that popped in my head. By the way, thanks for that very professional post on your blog. I appreciate it.
5th August, 2010 at 10:14 pm
Hi there:
Yes I found this forum to be usefull, and certainly there are things that, well, you’d better be carefull with them, and there are even posts that are repeated all the time and to me, the best thing about a forum is to place questions and get answers and it’s not like that all the time.
Regards,
Pablo.
5th August, 2010 at 11:39 pm
hey Josh,
Steve
I think that most of the advice on most forums is just plain wrong. The key is to get ideas, but then test them yourself and see if they really work or don’t. Some people may say that comment links work, or that directory links work, etc. but the only one that really knows (google) isn’t talking.
I am skeptical of everything… until I determine for myself whether it is right or not. BTW, in my opinion, most of your advice I have read here is absolutely right.
1st November, 2010 at 9:36 pm
I can say I was definitely intimidated by the Warrior forum (as a newbie). So I just watched & observed for a L-o-n-g time.
Now I feel confident I can better tell the good offers from the bad or “less valuable” offers.
Sometimes, you just have to go slow & be an observer
(& spend time reading the feedback of those you’ve come to know & trust in the Forum)
15th March, 2011 at 12:26 pm
The Warrior Forum is such a nasty place. It’s filled with wannabe success stories and self-called “gurus” who are nothing more than insecure little morons who wouldn’t know how to make a buck online if it hit them in the face! Trust me, getting banned from there i a good thing, because it lets you step back and see what a real bunch of turds hang out in that place!
15th March, 2011 at 12:30 pm
lol tell us how you really feel, Chris.