Is it Wrong for “Gurus” to Always Sell to you?
June 30th, 2009 | 69 comments
Before I even talk about the subject of this post, I want to take a second to recognize one of the best Direct Response salesmen of all time, Billy Mays. Billy passed away last Sunday in his sleep. Billy is one of my role models and should be for anyone who is looking to become a good, ethical marketer. He promoted solid products and although he obviously used some well-known marketing tactics, he was an ethical person and one of the best Marketers to ever live! Rest in Peace, Billy Mays!
Now to the subject of this post. Almost every day there is a new “hot” Internet Marketing product that launches and if you’re a subscriber to any number of lists you know you’re going to hear about at least one of them, right?
Many people get annoyed when they’re pitched to over and over and over again.
While I don’t blame anyone for being annoyed when someone ONLY promotes to you and never offers free information, I want to explain why people like myself always seem to be selling something.
If you’ve been marketing online for a while this will be no surprise. This post isn’t to teach veteran marketers anything. It’s simply to make it clear to those struggling to make money online, so hopefully they understand that just because someone is trying to sell something to them, doesn’t mean they don’t honestly want to help!
Approximately every 18 days, sometimes sooner, sometimes later, I send out an email to my mailing list. This email is a promotion and yes, I want you to consider buying it because if you do, I’m going to make money. I’m not a liar, a scammer or a cheat. I’ll be the first to admit it. I promote products because I want to make money. It really is that simple.
BUT, there is something that separates the good guys from the bad and that’s quality! Nearly every day I receive email from other marketers with lists. Some of these people have small lists, while others have lists of 100,000 and more. These people ask me if I would like to do an “ad swap” or something similar. They don’t mention any particular products or anything else.
What is their goal? Their goal is to make money and/or generate leads. They could care less what the product is, how good that product is and whether or not it’s going to help their followers.
THAT is where most people go wrong and THAT is what gives people like me a bad name.
You see, there are very few people like myself, Mark Mason, Andrew Hansen, Jonathan Leger, PotPieGirl etc. who regularly promote products, but we are extremely critical about what we promote!
I simply will not promote a product that I don’t believe in. I’ve been contact by several VERY well known marketers who wanted me to promote their products. That’s kind of how you “get in” their groups. You promote their product then they promote yours. They were very surprised when I said “Sorry, this isn’t a product that I believe will benefit my subscribers.”
I burnt bridges but I kept the integrity of my list and that’s exactly why my list (in most cases) converts 10 times better than the lists of these well-known “guru’s”
The Moral of the Story is This
Not every product is for everyone! On several occasions I’ve received replies to promotions from subscribers telling me their situation and I’ve told them that this product probably isn’t best for them at this time.
I find good products and I recommend them. Whether or not that product is best for you at that particular time depends on what you’re doing. There are MANY different Internet Marketing business models out there. If what I’m promoting doesn’t fit into your business model then I don’t recommend you purchase it!
What I’m trying to say here is this: Just because someone regularly recommends products doesn’t mean you should buy EVERY single product they recommend! At the same time, just because someone regularly recommends products doesn’t mean they don’t have your best interests in mind!
When people like Andrew Hansen, Mark Mason, myself and other ethical Internet Marketers promote a product you can rest assured it’s an honest recommendation, but we would never recommend EVERY single person on our list purchase it.
Selling is part of every business. Be sure to stay away from the guys who pitch something to you day after day after day because you know they don’t find good, honest recommendations every single day, but don’t let those guys give the good guys a bad name 
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1st July, 2009 at 4:13 am
Hi Josh!
I’m pretty much unsubscribe anybody who sends me emails every day promoting every marketing product that comes along. This is simply annoying. There are marketers that tell you to email the hell out of your list but for me, this doesn’t work.
I’m with you when you say that you only should email when you have something valuable to say. Valuable to the reader, not to you. This builds more trust and a more responsive list.
Gunter
1st July, 2009 at 6:02 am
Tragic news about Billy Mays… and what a LOSS to the marketing world!
You could give that man 30 seconds, and he could sell ice to Eskimos! What a talent! He certainly will be missed.
On a brighter note, THANK YOU for including me in such an impressive list of marketers! Quite an honor!
“Just because someone regularly recommends products doesn’t mean you should buy EVERY single product they recommend! At the same time, just because someone regularly recommends products doesn’t mean they don’t have your best interests in mind!”
Amen to that!
When I am occasionally promoting something to my list, it is my way of saying, “Hey, I found this – I checked it out – and I find it valuable. If it fits in with your online business needs, you might want to check it out, too”
I don’t do high-pressure…not sure I am capable of it…lol!
Yet another great post, Josh!!
Thanks again!
Jennifer
~PotPieGirl
1st July, 2009 at 6:03 am
I agree with this “Not every product is for everyone”. You don’t have to sell your products if it doesn’t suits the client.
1st July, 2009 at 7:07 am
Josh
I buy very little IM material, however over the last 6 months I have bought from Jennifer, Jon, Andrew and yourself (sorry Mark). Not because you all hyped them, but because they were quality products
I think that proves your point – Quality & Integrity will always win
Thanks
Paul
1st July, 2009 at 10:55 am
Well said Josh! I find it highly ridiculous when persons I consider worthy of trust send me promo links to substandard products.
How can they jeopardize this trust for few extra bucks.
But every body has his own definition of integrity.
1st July, 2009 at 3:00 pm
Josh — thanks for the mention. All I can really say is that you are one of the best teachers out there, and I owe a lot of my success to you. Thanks, man.
@Paul — no problem about no purchases from me, but if I can help you in any way, just let me know.
Thanks,
Mark
1st July, 2009 at 3:03 pm
Josh…what a well timed post. I’ve been reviewing the mailing list for the very reasons you’ve stated. I need to make a living BUT want to make sure I am adding value and doing it ethically.
The fact that you care is one of the reasons why I am a member of your fantastic coaching and have purchased products from you.
I have been contemplating an email policy statement to demonstrate the integrity of my actions.
Though it takes time to “cull” and screen what is worth promoting, this action is the single most valuable lesson for internet marketing. Short term gains will be long term losses otherwise. Thanks for your excellent insights as usual.
1st July, 2009 at 3:16 pm
Nice post,
I agree 100% with your statements as this is what it takes to build a real business that will last for years to come.
Cheers,
Nando
1st July, 2009 at 3:16 pm
Hi Josh,
I have kept on following along with you and enjoyed your comments.
I like many other new IM people got so much stuff thrown at me and also getting phone calls from the States to the UK, that I just started to block and unsubscribe to all the “Gurus” my inbox could not take anymore.
So now apart from yourself and a few others I have a quieter life, still no money from the internet, well not enough to live on.
And I am now slowly trying to market my “Canvas Artworks” and build a list of potential buyers.
Thanks for all the info.
Gerry
1st July, 2009 at 3:22 pm
Excellent post, Josh. Pushing sub-standard products is very short sighted. A year ago I bought an IM product on the recommendation of a marketing guru I trusted. The product was awful! Poorly written, bad links, wrong information. Really terrible. I got my money back immediately, and then unsubscribed from the guru’s list. It was obvious to me that he either had not reviewed the product or didn’t care.
Predictably I got several more mailings from other gurus promoting the same product, and I unsubscribed from every one of them. It got pretty funny.
Anyway, thanks for being so generous with your information.
1st July, 2009 at 3:25 pm
Well said Josh and well explained too.
This is an odd business we’re in. I have promo emails for a good product that I and others are marketing.
Here’s the thing – the product is superb – I have a JV copy – but the emails are embarrassing!
Kind of Wealth in 30 days stuff!
Why do so many marketers who otherwise are sane, well intentioned, good people feel that they have to play this ridiculous game?
i like “Simply Stephen” idea of an email policy doc.
O yeah I did not send the promo email – I sent my own opinion and review…
All The Best
Alex
1st July, 2009 at 3:27 pm
Hey Josh,
As a military person pursuing the path that you and Tim Gorman have established. I appreciate the values and hard position you are taking. This gives me a peace of mind to “Dig In” knowing you are standing guard over the integrity of your list.
1st July, 2009 at 3:28 pm
Very good Josh. Well said. Other marketers have spoken of your integrity and I concur, with them, and with this post.
Gary Halbert, God rest his soul, spoke of me and you marketing.
Me marketing is being focused on what I get from selling you.
You marketing is what you get from being sold.
Gary’s stance was to always be focused on giving the prospect or current customer the most value you can for the buck, which is ‘you marketing’ at its best.
And my point is merely this: even the great Gary Halbert agrees with you Josh.
You aren’t wrong brother. You’re preaching right on the money, and I for one appreciate that.
Jason Bunner
1st July, 2009 at 3:28 pm
Hello,
I agree with your post 100%. I hate to be on lists where I am pitched to every day, in some cases. It becomes obvious where the focus is. Obviously, some pitches are gonna come my way. What I want to know is basically what you described-Is the person really recommending this because it is potentially useful to me or just to their bottom line. I have purchased before based on a promotion. If the product is not all that it was hyped to be, guess who I no longer purchase thru (Don’t get me wrong, all products have some value, even the over-promoted!) So, you are correct, guard your lists, or you may find yourself without that most valuable of assets due to “over marketing” abuse.
1st July, 2009 at 3:29 pm
Good post Josh. I’ve found myself unsubscribing lately from a lot of lists.
I don’t know why some marketers feel the need to email everyday – some of them even twice a day! Maybe some people like receiving mail that regular, but I’m betting most people don’t.
I do read the ones like yours that come through every two or three weeks!
1st July, 2009 at 3:29 pm
Josh,
I don’t mind being pitched, but I get extremely tired of “gurus” pitching things they obviously have never seen or used.
I’m sick of the emails telling me this is the “best I’ve ever seen, I know this guy personally. He was a ditch digger/used car salesman/blah blah blah!
All of the above insults my intelligence, and is nothing more than lying!
Cheers!
1st July, 2009 at 3:33 pm
Same for me here. I think that promoting affiliate products should be a win win situation.
You win, and your subscriber should win too.
It is good to educate your subscribers whenever you send an email, to let them know if it’s for them or not.
Franck
1st July, 2009 at 3:42 pm
Great post, Josh. I couldn’t agree with you more. I remember the days when people sent useful newsletters and promoted quality products. Unfortunately, you don’t see that so much anymore. Some of the people I used to respect as good marketers are no longer on my list of emails that I read because of this.
I always try to read your posts because you give good content and I know that you don’t expect me to buy everything you promote.
Here’s hoping some other marketers will follow your example.
Jenny
1st July, 2009 at 3:57 pm
Great post Josh! I am bombarded everyday with worthless promotions that I have no interest in. Too many marketers think that just because you’re on their list they have the right to annoy you constantly, some even daily, with sales pitches for affiliate products and product launches. You know they haven’t bought or used the product but they expect you to… So stupid if you ask me… When I sign up for a newsletter I expect to get a newsletter… information I can use… if the first thing they send me is nothing but a sales letter I waste no time hitting the Unsubscribe button! I don’t mind being sold to but please show some respect and don’t mislead your subscribers… have some integrity!
Great post Josh… and you can sell to me anytime…
May God Bless Billy Mays and his family. He will be missed.
1st July, 2009 at 3:58 pm
Josh:
Thanks for identifying this problem.
The amount of stuff being pitched lately is overwhelming. Seems like a lot of deparate people trying to make a quick buck. So much of it sounds the same, has very little differentiation, not very heavy on “real” benefits, and seems to be re-packaged.
As many have stated, I am also unsubsribing to many of these Guru’s. The time I spend reading their stuff could me more productively applied to building my business.
Jim O’D
1st July, 2009 at 3:59 pm
Josh, I’m one who’s quick to lose trust. I’ll take much less notice of those who push products that I know at the end of the day won’t help me achieve my goals via the smartest route.
Interesting post, thanks.
1st July, 2009 at 4:01 pm
I’ve resisted the temptation of signing up to the latest list from the latest “guru” and glad of it. I also have a very low threshold to hype.
I recently unsubscribed from one guy who, I kid you not, emailed his list about 3-4 times in one day making sure we all had the opportunity to buy his goods before the deadline — and that was in addition to all the other emails he delivered prior to that. Geesh!
It’s that kind of person we should all stay away from. Respect the list and it will respect you!
1st July, 2009 at 4:02 pm
I totally agree. In fact it’s been so bad recently that I’m adopting a “3 strikes & you’re out” policy. ie if the third email received is simply touting something, then I’m off that guru’s list.
I also amazed at the bigger the guru status, the more expensive the product being promoted!
Bruce
1st July, 2009 at 4:19 pm
I know what you mean, the mailing lists of those who send promotion after promotion first end up under “too-much” filter (which causes me to avoid the products from those lists), and if it wasn’t temporary, I unsubscribe or auto-archive the list away from sight.
My “policy” since day 1 (not too long ago) has been that I would only recommend products or services that I have first hand experience with, or which I strongly believe are worth the cost (based on free content or other experience).
1st July, 2009 at 4:27 pm
This article made me think about some lists that I am on and I have to say I am going to unsubscribe to some of them right now.
Some of them promote products everyday or every other day. They are not trying to help me make money or better my business.
Josh thanks for making this post, I would have never thought about it if I didn’t read this post.
1st July, 2009 at 4:37 pm
Good stuff. And very true that you have to keep your biz model in mind. This really helps me to exclude a lot of product from my funnel. If it doesn’t help my biz direction directly, I don’t buy it.
Thx. Josh,
Anthony
1st July, 2009 at 4:53 pm
great post, i remember when i first got into IM i was bombarded by so many pitches it got old real fast.
It feel like some of those guys are desperate or something. I have since un subscribed from alot of lists.
Your approach of soft sell is much much better and will in the long run keep you around longer!
1st July, 2009 at 5:02 pm
Way to go big guy!
Keep flyin the flag for the good guys
Great post.
Andrew
P.S. Thanks for the mention, that means alot.
1st July, 2009 at 5:15 pm
Nice post Josh.
I have to say that a few months ago I found Mark Mason and was impress by his integrity; it was like a sudden breath of fresh air. Through Mark, I found you and some others that you mentioned in your post.
You guys are the real honest deal and You couldn’t of said it better words, Yes you are in this business to make money but you also care about your list and it shows.
Congrats on your success and mine is just around the corner; thanks to you and the other ethical ones.
What else can I say other than keep doing what you are doing because you are changing people’s lives.
Philippe
1st July, 2009 at 5:42 pm
Aloha Josh,
I enjoyed your post and have to agree with you that some marketers abuse this relationship with their subscribers. I for one simply delete the entire content if it appears heading that way.
What I find most disturbing is how some marketers offer a product that I am willing to purchase then try bundling it with another related product as a one time offer. That is very misleading.This strategy is being used more often. What a turnoff.
1st July, 2009 at 5:47 pm
I have not done an ad swap yet but I think they can work if you find someone with the same morals and integrity as yourself. I don’t promote things I don’t like either. The worst kind of marketer is the one that takes the affiliate provided email and does not change a word. It’s not persomnal
1st July, 2009 at 6:37 pm
I have had the policy on my own blog since inception, that I only promote marketing products I have experience with and believe in.
I tend to unsubscribe from people who flood my inbox with emails. Then if I do buy an item which “everybody” is promoting, I wind up buying it from someone who emails me less often and has thus survived my unsubscribe clean-outs.
I also appreciate when someone actually explains what something is and what it does instead of just telling me how great it is. I get really frustrated when someone goes on and on about how great it is and what it’s end result will be, when I can’t see what the product is or does.
1st July, 2009 at 6:50 pm
Hi Josh!
Thank you very much for the post on the ‘gurus’ attacks to everyone who by curiosity got on their lists…for a new internet marketer it could be very difficult to distinguish, but… it becomes rather obvious who is who after a while… I get about 50 emails every single days and I read or save for reading maybe 3-4 of them… the rest is going to a folder that I probably will never open…
It is always informative to read your emails, as well as PotPieGirl’s. And really, when you trust people, they can sell you anything
Nice to know there are honest IMarketers out there in the big Internet world
1st July, 2009 at 7:07 pm
Thanks for the post, Josh!
For me, yes, it definitely raises my suspicion and detracts from the overall mission of learning solid ethical techniques & strategies. But, then again, I guess, it helps identify & separate the “Good Guys” from the “Not So Good Guys”. At least, I ‘m learning what “Not to Do”.
Thanks again.
– Marcus
1st July, 2009 at 7:48 pm
Great points as usual, Josh.
Every few weeks I go on a binge of unsubscribing from marketers who only market and never offer any content.
I have decided that since I’m a regular buyer of products, I find that the best people who also provide content are the people who deserve my money.
I also find that generally speaking, only the people who provide free content are frequently the ones who also provide good customer service AFTER the sale.
My policy is to only deal with marketers who actually provide service to their customers.
I’m always amazed how many online marketers don’t provide service for products they sell and hide behind email.
I don’t reward offline companies for bad service by continuing to buy from them, and that policy should apply to online marketers as well.
Too many online marketers seem to have a salesperson (one sale) mentality instead of a business owner mindset.
1st July, 2009 at 8:19 pm
You are right, not ell product are suits everyone. I have learned to just follow a few experts, and thats you and Andrew Hansen. Thanks.
1st July, 2009 at 8:20 pm
You really hit the nail on the head. One of the forgotten virtues of email marketing is “Patience”.
Unless your list is made up of the richest marketers (which I’m sure it isn’t), what good is it to send some new offer every day or even every week. Your list can’t afford it.
And to be honest, most IM’ers need to spend more time focusing and acting on the information that they already own than buying more information to distract them into doing something new.
Only the truly worthy offers and products should be promoted by respectable marketers like yourself and those listed in the post.
1st July, 2009 at 9:26 pm
Josh,
I know you are straight and honest, so this is not aimed at you per say.
Here is my problem with all this “list” promotion garbage:
It is all MMO crap!
I have never one time had anyone pitch me an MMO product and explain how to utilize it to MMO OUTSIDE of the MMO niche!
Now I am smart enough to know how to use products, tools and services to make money in areas like gardening, travel, food, etc… but most noobs and gurus alike just recycle sales to the same MMO people who are looking for the next great MMO thing. Incest I tell you! Incest…
AL
1st July, 2009 at 10:39 pm
I love the guru’s who are all over each other when it comes time to launch a new product. They’ll offer you all kinds of things to get you to buy from them. When a guru buddy is launching a new product they will email you for a week in advance of the new product coming out.
It’s getting dog eat dog out there and the guru’s are starting to slap each other in the face. I love that.
People who’s heart is in the right place are easy to spot and follow. No names, but suffice it to say most people on your list have figured it out.
Keep it up
1st July, 2009 at 11:16 pm
I don’t usually get irritated with sales pitches because I understand that marketers are just trying to make a living. I do appreciate those however, who do pick the products they endorse
1st July, 2009 at 11:48 pm
Josh,
I so agree with your post. When you’ve been on the net for a while your inbox can become quite a problem draining your time and wallet unless you develop a strategy.
I’ve come to the decision that I have to control my inbox and not let it control me. I do that by:
1. Having a personal strategy for success. That determines whether I even go to the sales page. If its not something that fits with my plan and strategy its deleted.
2. I set up rules and folders to manage emails so I read what I want when I want.
3. I turn off the audio alert and check my email when it suits.
4. I make quick decisions based on content and sender.
5. I work towards my goal of having a help desk.
2nd July, 2009 at 12:32 am
I would like to comment on Billy Mays. Part of what made him successful is similar at least in my view to what Josh is talking about here.
One of my favorite TV shows is or was “Pitchmen” I’m guessing most have seen it.
I truly love that show. It always highlighted a couple of products from normal everyday people that had put every fiber of there being into it’s creation and development. They believed in their product and if it was something that Billy and Anthony Sullivan could get behind they would as well.
Billy always stood behind every product that he marketed and it had to meet his own personal requirements.
One thing we can learn from Billy,is that if your going to promote a product then use it yourself. This is particularly true if you’re marketing to a list, make sure that you’ve used it. Get as much feedback from others as you can and make sure you can stand behind it.
The only caveat to this is if you’re doing straight affiliate marketing you can be more liberal about what you choose because there is a certain element of anonymity if you set it up right.
But if you’re working with a personal list don’t even think about it. Have the only the highest standards.
Think of it this way. If you are going to promote a product pretend that your face will be posted every time they use it. If you can live with that and you feel good about it, then you have yourself a winner.
That’s what Billy Mays did when he asked us to buy Oxyclean, or Mighty Putty. It was not his product, but it was his face on the line. That’s why when we saw him with a new product that he was promoting you pretty much instantly knew that it was probably decent and would solve your problem if you were in the market.
Billy you will be missed. Thanks for being one of the good guys.
Alan / Jax,FL
2nd July, 2009 at 1:35 am
I consistently unsubscribe myself from email lists that every day have a new product to promote.
You give more emails with info than with promotions, so I am happy to read info and you are happy to send a promotion.
Good strategy to invest in a mailing list with happy subscribers that do read your email once it comes
2nd July, 2009 at 2:09 am
OH yes there are tons of guru’s pitching stuff does not work for everyone. But take the garage sale folks….They sell stuff that is no longer wanted or needed but others will pay for what you don’t need or want anymore.
In other words one man’s trash is another man’s GOLD. The same in the IM world…You may not want or need it but others will make it work.
Crappy stuff to YOU is NOT to others.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Paul
2nd July, 2009 at 2:30 am
Greetings Josh,
Just a thought. What if marketers gave their list an option to decide how often they would receive new product opportunities from the Super Affiliate or Guru – say once a week, once a month, every three months – you get the idea, instead of stuffing proposals in their box every day. They would only send out the offers when the person on the list opted-in for their particular period when they wanted to receive offers. In essence fulfill the needs of their list… What a concept! All to often in-boxes are filled to the brim with offers every day, even after the prospect has purchased a program. I know, for this has happened to me and ever after I purchased something through a JV partner the next day he’s out with something new to sell me. In my view he or she loses creditability and trust which is the foundation of building relationships on the web. Treat your list with respect, give them value, give them choices. The Law of Diminishing Returns dictates – the more you use something the less power it has. Understand as more and more newbies come online more and more competition will overwhelm them with more offers and truckloads of bonuses leading to overwhelm and burnout; for the Master Marketer who understands the fundamentals of creating trust by meeting the needs of their list will rise above the hordes with the creditability of a Professional not a Player. Just a thought…
SLV
2nd July, 2009 at 3:12 am
Its a “social internet” – you can see what others are saying about you- You and Andrew Hansen are safe
Other Gurus- work on the “numbers” game and churn of list…..
It MUST make there list less responsive? thoughts?
2nd July, 2009 at 5:09 am
Totally agree. The thing that annoys me the most is the marketers out there that turn from friendly community-oriented figures to blatant sales pitching machines overnight. There are a few examples out there if you think about it long enough.
There is one guy out there that started with nothing and built his business from the ground up and was for a period, a very helpful and approachable person. Now, he doesn’t seem so approachable because I just receive promotion after promotion for the latest hot product. Often the email templates are exactly the same as the ones that 2 or 3 other marketers have used, so that certainly portrays a ‘don’t care’ mentality whether it is intended or not.
I guess some marketers lose a bit of enthusiasm after the nest egg has been built so to speak, but this may or may not be a bad thing.
2nd July, 2009 at 6:02 am
Funnily enough I complained about this kind of thing on my blog the other day following another hyped up sales pitch that landed in my inbox.
As I pointed out, why go to all the trouble of building a list to destroy it with poorly conceived emails and suspect promotional copy?
It is very noticeable that there are little clusters of marketers from the bottom of the food chain right to the top who cross promote everything each one of them produces regardless of quality.
I find that kind of incestuous and it makes me unsubscribe faster than a very fast thing. That and the sycophantic fawning that some will do to “buddy up” to others. Sure I understand the need to JV sometimes, but it’s the manner in which it comes across that makes you want to puke sometimes.
I can’t believe their lists are responsive, and would imagine they have a very high turnover. I try to push people towards your own email marketing report in the hope they will learn how not to do it.
OK that’s my rant over for today
2nd July, 2009 at 10:04 am
Not everyone cares about their list and it’s at the moment when one starts to not care that you can lose your credibility and maybe even your ability to convert.
Why do people have trouble with making money? Were heard of the power of Fair Trade?
When you provide something of value, it is ok to ask for consideration in return.
I think that is the problem with internet marketing, especially if you are new is that you are so desperate to be successful in the beginning that you promote too much and fail to build a relationship with your list.
You can’t work for free forever, but it makes sense to offer yourself and your services initially for free just to get your foot in the door or into the minds of your clients.
LIST=Clients
2nd July, 2009 at 11:26 am
Well stated, Josh. Over the past few months the number of pitches seems to have escalated, especially from those whose product I have purchased. Rather then offering support for that item I receive more and more pitches for other items.
What this tells me is that these are the new kids on the block shooting from the hip. Inevitably they will loose the initial sale (refund) because the product was mediocre and the additional pitches endless.
I prefer to pay attention to the Joshs, Jennfiners and Jonathans…who know how to market ethically and respectfully.
Thanks for making this point!
2nd July, 2009 at 1:55 pm
The fact that you had the guts to tell larger marketers that their product were inferior (or however you exactly worded it), is amazing.
I think my respect for you just went up there.
2nd July, 2009 at 3:55 pm
Talk about hitting the nail on the head
At times I send out bare affiliate links so people on my list know I’ll make money from their purchase. I found that saves me from explaining that I need to earn money from my time.
Many understand the situation and others may be remove my affiliate details and use theirs etc but I dont mind much about that.
When you put your name behind a product, you better make sure its a descent one cause if it bombs, it could spell your online down fall or affect the response of your list.
Making money on top of a great recommendation is good business as you’re still helping someone on your list.
A great post – Thanks
Susan
2nd July, 2009 at 9:50 pm
Very good lessons to be learned in this article for those of us who are in the early stages of developing our lists and deciding, when, how, and what to promote or recommend.
3rd July, 2009 at 4:01 am
I believe were at the point where the Internet public is wising up. Due to the economy the easy hype sales are gone. Building relationships with clients over the Internet, making good recommendations and being a bit straighter in marketing are in. The consumer will have the final say in this game.
Regards
3rd July, 2009 at 1:08 pm
This was actually a refreshing post. There is a lot of promotions going around and it can be very difficult to see what products are good and what products are not. That is also way it is so important to keep the integrity because most times people will by on the fact that they trust the person recommending it and not the actual salespitch.
I’ve bough MANY products solely based on the person recommending it.
Mikael
4th July, 2009 at 6:28 am
Ric, you hit the nail on the head.
I made a folder entitled “Possibly Maybe Look At Someday” and I filed it under the “Junk” folder in OutLook.
If a list I’m subscribed to sends me basically nothing but product pitches — if there’s hardly ever any informative content, in other words — then I make a rule in OutLook to have all the mail from that address delivered directly to my “Possibly Maybe Look At Someday” folder.
This keeps my inbox clear for important messages, and it leaves me free to do something else with my time besides read advertisements.
Once a month, I sort my “Possibly Maybe Look At Someday” folder by the “FROM” field, or sender. This clumps all of Josh’s emails together, for example, and all the emails from each of the other “gurus” I subscribe to, also. That way, I can scan all of each list’s subject lines at once and see if there’s anything there that I think might be worth my valuable time to click open.
What saved me from wasting time reading advertisements was some advice in a book by copywriter Bob Bly about how to put a per-hour price on your time. Once you get that figured out, then you have to add on an additional sum for all the things like “overhead” and health insurance and retirement plan and so on, because you have to take care of these yourself, if you’re on your own.
Once I understood what my time was really worth, I never again spent so much as one minute of “prime time” reading advertisements. These I reserved for my “off hours” or “family time” … and if it’s a choice between dinner out with my darling husband or reading gurus’ emails, I just bet you can guess which one I pick!
Although I continue to subscribe to many lists just to keep my fingers on the pulse of what’s going on by means of scanning their subject lines, I don’t buy anything anymore from emails.
It works out better for me to just simply wait until it seems like I need to take steps to improve a particular area of my business, and then I go out and look for the best tool I can find that will get the job done.
And where I start looking is at the WarriorForum. I just go in there and say what I’d like to accomplish and ask for recommendations from other warriors who’ve already accomplished the same thing.
There are other places around the web, too, where people are very much in the know about the newest of the new stuff, if what you want to do is keep on the cutting edge of things. And the great thing about going there to get recommendations is that the people who give them to you don’t have any vested interest in the product at issue, so you don’t have to worry about their recommendations being “colored” by their desire to make money.
The bottom line is this:
Although it’s very nice that Josh and others like him believe in selling only the best products in their emails, at the end of the day, if you don’t really need it and can’t find time to learn to use it, then it’s not a good product *for you*.
Plus, it’s also possible that a “not best” product might be just what the doctor ordered! This happened to me only last week, when I had a chance to get a piece of software that still has a lot of rough edges on it. I can tell you, I grabbed it! Because it’s brilliant! Warts and all, it enables me to accomplish so much more than I ever could before!
But I didn’t get it from a guru’s email.
I got it because I said to myself, “There’s got to be a better way to do this!”
So I went out looking for it … and I found it!
To anyone who chances to read this, I hope you find what you’re looking for, too.
Warmest Regards …
Elizabeth
4th July, 2009 at 11:54 am
I get angry with “$1″ 14 day trials that say you can cancel at any time.What they say is that after 14 days they will take $97 or similar from your credit card and give the impression that you can avoid such a charge by cancelling.
Under UK regulations and probably others you have to give 14 days notice to cancel a direct dedit mandate on a credit card.
This means that if you cancel even 1 day after signing up for the trial it is going to cost you $97 which you cannot get back.
This I think is dishonest and I take my name off the list of anyone who promotes such schemes.
If they are not the principal, they should have studied the offer properly.
4th July, 2009 at 2:35 pm
Hey Josh,
I was thinking about this post while I was receiving multiple emails from Yaro Starak on a daily basis promoting his new Become a Blogger course.
Michel Fortin recently posted a rant along much the same lines which inspired me to unsubscribe to a ton of lists I was on.
5th July, 2009 at 4:08 am
Another great post Josh. One of the ways to weed out the gurus that don’t care is when they send you an email that is all copy and pasted exactly like 10 others gurus. That means they never even read or tested the product they are recommending you buy from them. That is dishonest and gets a quick unsub from me.
9th July, 2009 at 7:16 pm
Josh,
This is one of the reasons I’m a regular around here. You tell it like it is.
I make no apologies for providing valuable products to people who need or want them but at the same time I’m aware that being an offer harlot is not the way to go.
Your blog provides valuable content and IMHO that is your giving part. Having said that, this is a business. You and I are in business to not just earn a living, but to do it with integrity.
By the way, you didn’t have to give away your $5/day e-book but you did. That speaks volumes.
All the best,
“The Mad Guy”
9th July, 2009 at 9:56 pm
Thought I would pass along that the tribute for Billy Mays, a man who reached the pinnacle of personal and professional self realization, is on Discovery tonight (07/09/2009) at 9pm
10th July, 2009 at 12:20 pm
Hi Josh,
Couldn’t agree more. It was while I was clearing out my inbox and unsubscribing to all and sundry that I came across your email which linked to this post. As a relative newbie my most difficult problem is trying to decide which marketing system to use. I have been collecting ‘free info’ for a while and I find there are so many ways with everyone and his dog promoting the whole world with guaranteed success if I just pay $49 – $79 – $97 etc
I really like the idea of ‘set and forget’ so that I can build up several income generating sites with out losing track of what I’m doing.
Today lots of people have lost a subscriber but those providing me with good info and comming across as ethical are welcome in my inbox, and who knows one day I might even make some money.
Keep up the good work Josh.
13th July, 2009 at 8:12 am
Yes it is.
Frankly, I will unsubscribe anyone who emails me every two or 3 days and the worst thing yet?
I sign up to a guys responder and all of a sudden, ‘his great friend’ or ‘best buddy’ has an ‘awesome offer just for me but be quick, this offer will close at 11pm and will never be repeated’
Get a life! Some marketers must think we are just plain stupid and selling his list to other marketers just isn’t acceptable.
13th July, 2009 at 8:15 am
@MarkMcCullagh, Sorry didn’t see this before but I agree. I actually unsubscribed from Yaro’s list because I was getting so many emails from him and Carl Ocab, etc all about the ‘become a better blogger’ course. Way too much overload.
13th July, 2009 at 8:32 pm
Yes, Mark Harrison, I totally agree. Yaro Starak released a free-with-email-address pdf a couple of years ago about the “pillars” of blogging … about his idea of what makes a successful blog, in other words. I downloaded it and was impressed enough with it to subscribe to his brand-new membership site at “50% off” of what was to become the full price of $100 a month.
I wound up cancelling my subscription a few months later because I found I wasn’t getting anything out of it. To be fair, that’s mostly because I was *very* busy during that period and simply didn’t have the time to plow through all the stuff in the “back office” and do all the things he said to do on a week-to-week basis.
In fact, I have found this to be true of “membership” sites generally. For me, anyway. They’re great for the guru because he gets “residual income” from them. But they don’t “work” for me. Not unless it’s something like FreeTrafficSystem where I pay so much a month to use a software platform that makes me more money than it costs me.
Anyway, after I stopped paying him for the privilege of not getting anything out of my subscription, I kept getting emails at such a relentless pace that I, like you, finally unsubscribed from those, too … something I don’t ordinarily do. Normally, as I said above, what I would have done is make a rule in OutLook to automatically route them to my “Possibly Maybe Look At Someday” sub-folder under my Junk Mail folder. After all, if nothing else, they’re excellent examples of what *not* to send to your list!
The thing that bears keeping in mind, though, is that these marketers are probably sending all these emails because, like pop-up subscription boxes, “they work.” At least, to a degree, they do. Or these marketers wouldn’t keep sending them out.
Stands to reason, right? Their game plan is obviously to bring newbies into their list through various types of advertising, milk them for all they’re worth, and replace every one that unsubscribes with ten more … the “revolving-door” method of marketing.
But there are a few marketers out there who do it differently, who only send out emails once or twice a month. And who do their level best to make their content worthwhile. Their emails are a treat to receive and a delight to read. In fact, I’m subscribed to one where I actually pay every month to receive communications of this calibre, and I count myself lucky to be privileged to do so. It’s a whole different thing, when information you’re looking forward to receiving comes right straight into your inbox, without you having to click on some link to go to some blog to receive it, or remember to go visit your membership site to get it.
So I would say, I guess, that when our turn comes to put on the “guru” hat, the best thing we can do is remember The Golden Rule — “Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You” — and treat the subscribers of our futures lists as we are learning here in this post how subscribers want to be treated.
Warmest Regards …
Elizabeth
P.S.
One last thing I might mention:
Guru-class marketers go to “summit” meetings where they learn a whole bunch of stuff that they take home and try out on their unsuspecting site/blog visitors and email subscribers. I remember a time a couple of years back that is sometimes referred to now as “Black October” where people unsubscribed en masse from marketers’ lists. One of the speakers at the internet-marketing summit conference they had attended had obviously talked about how much money could be made from joint ventures — “you contact your list about my product and I’ll contact my list about your product” — and they all came home and put it into practice … with disastrous results in the form of a mass unsubscribe.
What they forgot to take into consideration, you see, is the fact that many of the people who are subscribed to *their* lists are *also* subscribed to *other* marketers’ lists, and that getting multiple pitches for the same product was just simply unsupportable. We all unsubscribed! To everything! With a vengeance! “Take that … click! And take this … click!”
And then what happened next was those of us who were left started getting emails about how important it is to be *very* selective as to your joint-venture partners!
30th July, 2009 at 8:25 pm
Billy was amazing. When he was talking I just had to listen.
Rick
2nd October, 2009 at 6:34 pm
Nice post Josh. I don’t mind promo’s, as it’s part of the business. Alot of the gurus promote these big launches for their guru friends in return for a future favour, so I understand that part. It’s the guys who send mostly promo’s that do my head in. I rarely ever buy. They should balance the books with good content, with promo’s to compliment the content occasionally.
19th January, 2011 at 2:25 am
Hey Josh,
Couldn’t have said it better myself. I really take a good look at products and often do analysis & research on the ‘results’ said products claim.
In all honestly, most IM products pitched involve ‘spammy’ or questionably unproductive practices that do nothing (or detrimental things) for SEO or promotion.
What really irks me is when someone has a clean reputation and their products are very good, but then they go and ruin it by pitching crap IM products.
It’s obvious what they’re doing… not actually checking into the products they are promoting. They simply accept a JV and then batch out a big pitch email without knowing what it is they are promoting.
They often use a claim ‘a friend of mine’ launching X product. Everything thing my ‘friend’ launches is quality and blah blah blah…
Seems like everyone is a ‘friend’ in the world of IM relationships.
Seriously, i’ve looked at a LOT of products, and the ones that make my individual ‘cut’ are rare. Often, they are NOT well known and a bit more expensive then their competitors (but not always!)
At the end of the day, ANY TECHNIQUE or PRODUCT, that becomes popular & utilized by logic becomes ineffective. Most products are spammy and the search engines pick them up once they become wide spread enough and nail whatever ‘tactics’ they use.
15th November, 2011 at 2:04 pm
Meaning post !
Need to stay away from pushy marketers if you are a consumer and try not to sell wrong products to buyers if you are a marketer.